Greetings from Iraq

Recently the news media have been calling it a civil war over here. Why Now? That’s what I’m asking myself. Nothing seems to have changed from the last time I was here – Sunni’s and Shiites fighting for power. The war here is the same but for some reason the media has changed its perspective on it and have begun calling it a civil war. Could it be politically driven? I realize politicians use the media to their advantage and with Democrats gaining more power in Washington, it makes me wonder if it gives them more leverage for pulling the troops out if they start calling it what its been since day one. I just dont see any difference over here besides now we are calling it what it has been since we toppled the government. Everybody wants to make sure that there own interests are taken care of and everyone wants a piece of the pie. In fact they are willing to kill for it.

My Opinion is this: when the president makes a promise to help another country, he is making a promise for the nation not just for himself. When his term in office has ended it does not mean that the promise our nation made to the Iraqi people is null and void. Regardless of what party is in political power or who our president may be. Let’s keep our integrity by keeping our promises.

56 Comments on “Greetings from Iraq

  1. Really like your approach.You’re providing information I can use at this moment, and fixin’ to. Thanks!.

  2. Drag, I have to agree with Terri. But, I will answer your question. No they are not my personal boots on the ground, as in my actual feet in those boots, but they are in effect “my” boots cause they are my guys. We talk almost every day, some I do talk to every day. I know what their jobs are to the extent that they can tell me, and I know that when they are very busy with THEIR jobs, it means very good things for our guys over there. And still others when they AREN’T busy with THEIR jobs, that means good news too.

    If you actually knew any Soldiers or Marines you would understand that, and know that the info I have, is rock solid and first hand. I would take any one of my guys info in actual combat situations over a talking head on any news station any day. They are there, eating it, sleeping it, breathing it, 24/7 and understand the situation a heck of a lot better than a reporter who gets his info from the teletype machine. And I know that’s where they get their info from. They never leave the “safety” of their hotel rooms and stand on the roof tops to make their reports.

    Now, may I suggest that you stop all your negative garbage and join a discussion about how SNAFU feels things are going over there. It is not a debate about hate spewing. I for one am very interested in what SNAFU has to say, and if you aren’t well then I suggest you go back over to ONE UTAH and wallow in their garbage. This is a good place. We are family here. Those who come are welcomed. But, this is OUR home. You are an uninvited guest. You are here at the pleasure of CJ and M, Patriot and Haystack. I would hope that you would treat OUR home with more respect in the future. Keep the threads as they should be and don’t go off on your little hate filled tangents.

  3. Dragooner if you’d read all the replies to this post, then it would become pretty obvious who’s “boots on the ground” and who isn’t. You all are here predicting doom and gloom, but not bothering to look at the fact that there are positive things going on in Iraq as well. We’ve heard your predictions of doom and gloom, but I have yet to hear a really viable answer to the situation. The only thing I’ve heard is “bring our troops home”. If only it was that easy and that things would be all rosy if we did that. But I don’t believe that’s a realistic option and I don’t believe that things would be wonderful in Iraq if we pulled out. You can talk about this being an “illegal war” all day long, but I have yet to see you present a viable alternative.

  4. Are these yout boots on the ground? /just another day winning hearts and minds. Things will only get worse, thank god it’s a volunteer military.

  5. “The sky is falling, the sky is falling.” One Nephi (Chicken Little sense)

  6. Drag, get a grip buddy!! Believing in the MSM will corrode your brain!! Get some real intel, talk to a Soldier or a Marine. The war is far from lost, far from over and you need to wake up. Good things are happening in Iraq, and we all know that you are in the Cliff, Nephi, Mud camp so we also know you don’t want to believe anything that doesn’t correspond with your “informed” sources of information. But I for one am listening to Boots on the Ground pal and they are tellin me a whole different story. I will go with them way before I would believe the Propaganda machines who are writing fiction in the “news” daily and shoving it down your throat. Your arguments are so old and stale. its more wah wah wah wah wah. Honestly.

  7. Hi everybody, don’t you think it’s time to wake up and realize what’s going on?

    The war is over, it’s lost and there’s nothing left to win. It’s utter chaos and civil war, active death squads kidnapping and torturing hundreds. They’re burning people alive in the streets over there (and you know what I believe the MSM over the Iraqi Interior Ministry any day, and you should too!) . A lot of people have died in vain. Objectively by all standards things are worse in Iraq now than when Sadam Hussein was in power.

    But hey, maybe stirring up a regional war is good for American interests. If they’re busy killing eachother they won’t even get to us….right? Ever hear of blowback?

    How many more American men and woman should die before we leave? Because, like it or not we are leaving eventually, we can’t stay forever, and forever is what it will take to “achieve victory”; who want’s to be the last man to die for Bush and Cheney’s lies?

    ps. The people we’ve most solidly f***ed over are the Kurds, who will be left hanging in the wind, and marked as American collaborators.

  8. Flo,

    Your post assumes facts not in evidence. People are not against modernity and democracy in Iraq. We just have prophetic visions that show it ain’t going to happen, at least not under the current leadership of the US. And in support of the last statement, we have, after all, been correct since the invasion – quick defeat of Iraqi forces, followed by sectarian violence of unimaginable scope. It really was not that hard to predict.

  9. It always amazes me how there are so many people hoping for a defeat of modernity and democracy in iraq, just so that their beloved DNC can regain power in the next election.
    These people really are the “useful idiots” the communists talked about.

    Thanks for your service in Iraq. Stay safe. Our guys are there too, in a small way.

  10. Ryan,

    Great Post!! You have much greater wisdom than a lot of the gnats that keep pestering the blog. Sectarian violence instigated by a few groups doesn’t mean an all out civil war. And any hatred between the Sunnis and the Shi’ites in some fashion has as SNAFU so aptly pointed out in his post, has been going on for the ages, but so has some form of infighting in any country on the planet. Ours included. People who feel so compelled to point out that there is nothing “but” fighting going on in Iraq are just plain ignorant to what is actually going on. There is plenty of good that is being accomplished on a daily basis and the sectarian violence will work itself out one way or the other. The everyday ordinary citizens of Iraq are coming forward with information about the violence, they are telling the Iraqi police and Soldiers. It is changing. But change is never swift, or abrupt in these kinds of situations. And it’s childish and immature to believe otherwise.

    Ryan, I don’t want to assume anything, are you in country now? Or waiting to go? Either way, I’m proud to know you are standing watch. Thank you for your service. I’m sure that it was a well informed decision and you are for sure a very well educated young man. Contrary to what Mr. Kerry and Mr. Rangle think!!

  11. Ryan,

    You need to stop smokin the strong stuff, my friend.

    You say: “Why are you accusing the president of lying when several investigations prove that he did not manipulate or twist any of the intelligence?”

    What investigation are you talking about? The ones where sympathetic Repugs failed to ask the tough questions about who knew what and when? Pelosi will take care of the investigations come 2007. I would hold your conclusions until the real investigations are complete.

    You say: “The declaration of war from congress states …” Sorry, Ryan, but Congress never declared war on Iraq.

    You say: “Iraq is not in civil war …” Sorry again, Ryan, your analogy fails. You say that that because not all Sunnis hate all Shiites, then there is no civil war. Well, guess what, not all Southerners hated all Northerners either during our own Civil War.

    Great comment, but needs work.

  12. You Know what’s so funny. This article is about whether Iraq is in civil war or not. Everybody here is talking about lying politicians and whose republican or democrat. Some people are even talking about who is propagated and believes in radical disinformation. May I remind everybody here that with news services like Fox, CNN, and MSN, we are all drinking from the same kool-aid pitcher. Why are you accusing the president of lying when several investigations prove that he did not manipulate or twist any of the intelligence? Let me guess that some people here don’t know any of the intelligence or any of the reasons for us going to war with Iraq in the first place which actually shows us that we had dozens of reasons for going into iraq (I already spelled it out for all of you in the “what have we done” debate so I am not going to write them all out again), not just wmds. Besides I wonder how Mustard gas and Sarin gas does not count as wmds. I don’t want to hear any of this excuse that it was old. The declaration of war from congress states that the wmd’s we are looking for can be as old as 10 to 30 years old given that this document states that the reason we suspect saddam of having illegal weapons is because he didn’t comply fully or at all for a fact with the sanctions apllied to him after the he (saddam) sacked kuwait during Persian Gulf War and that he did not destroy enough of his weapons. As far as the civil war claim, Iraq is not in civil war. When a sunni attacks a shiite or a shiite attacks a sunni, it doesn’t prove that every sunni and shiite wants to kill each other. In fact most people there want to stay out of this conflict between shiite radicals and sunni radicals. Just to cite Mudkitty on how she talks to soldiers. Well kitty I talk to Iraqis and most of those iraqi people I have met tolerate other sects as well as other religions and they have many friends in the oppositte Islamic sect, and they have several American friends too who are of both civilians and soldiers! It is also safe to say that these Iraqis that I know and respect represent alot of the people our troops encounter everyday in iraq given that these are genuine iraqis who haven’t lost touch with their roots and that kind and honest peaceful iraqi families overwhelmingly outnumber the sectarian violent extremist. However don’t get me wrong I don’t just know Iraqis, I know soldier’s too. In fact I dream of being on the frontline with my friends everyday, I miss most of my friends and I pray for their safety. My friend Jeff Wadleigh told me that most of the people in iraq where very nice and that despite the rigors of being a U.S. Marine it was all worth it to meet these people. Compare this to places like Djibouti, Ethiopia, Niger, Tanzania, Kenya, or Cameroon to name a few. Places with real civil war and far more dire situations where we have our soldiers see things like genocide, slavery, and 300 to 10,000 people dying happen almost everyday and there isn’t a single thing they can do about it.

  13. Sue, Sue, Sue,

    What on earth is troubling you, my dear? Problems with the hubby or kids? President Bush got you down?

    Just look at how much time you spent writing your comment just to slam me, not my viepoints, but me. You could just as well as have told me to f*** off and, in the process, saved yourself some time and conveyed the same amount of substantive information.

    At any rate, I respond: Yes, I do nbelieve there are good things in the world and responsibly consume those things or experience the moments, without, I should add, by driving a Hummer or wasting resources, the demand for which brings us partially to this debate. And yes, I know there are good things going on in Iraq (and never said there were not) that are overshaddowed by the violence that continues to spiral out of control. And yes, I am feeling a little oxygen starved these days giving global warming and all.

    But now I ask you, why did you waste all that time to attack me, rather than the substance of my comments – e.g., it is possible to appreciate the troops while disagreeing with the president?

    Geesh, and you accuse me of living a hate-filled existence!

  14. Oh I know exactly what you mean Lauren. Mackie is definately a sweetie. I’ve talked to him a couple times online and send him a few letters and am putting together a Christmas care package for him too. Sorry that thing posted twice. It kept saying the server was timing out and I tried it again. Oh well, it deserves to be posted twice.

  15. Okay, what I promised over the Noon hour when I was home for lunch. Rather than post everything, I’ll post the link instead and you can see for yourself what kinds of progress is being made every day in Iraq.

    www (dot) mnr-iraq (dot) com/index (dot) php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=5&id=17Itemid=47

    Unfortunately, even though this information is available online, the media refuses to say anything about this. My question, is WHY????

  16. Wohlford I’m sure you can tell that right about now, you are chatting with nothing more than a brick wall when you are talking to old Nephi here. And Nephi, peanuts were offered, but since you don’t accept gifts, you get nothing. I was being generous. But, I see now that it was a waste of my time.

    You seem to have a veritable plethora of statistics of negative things. How many statistics do you ever bother to look at (which by the way have been published on this blog many times but you never seem to find time to quote them!!!) about good things?? Do you ever even believe that there ARE good things in this world?? Constant negativity is a sign of depression, and a damaged psyche. Really man, go get that checked out, we would all like to see you get the help you need.

    There are plenty of things going on in Iraq that are GOOD things. POSITIVE things that our men and women in uniform are making happen each and every day. But your sick and twisted liberally controlled mass media doesn’t want any of that shown. So they spew left wing propaganda, lies and distortions. And the reason for that is that they want their party in power. Mission accomplished. So now, the rest of the country and our service men and women will suffer for it. But time will show that.

    Anyway, I see what is going on over there. I see the pictures that my guys send me. I know that Terri and Lauren also have tons of pics, and SNAFU, and I’m quite sure that CJ does too. Nephi, life is much too short man to be livin in that hate-filled microcosm of yours. The air gets stale!! Why not pop your little bubble and let the hatred dissipate so you can breath some pure oxygen into that brain of yours before it completely atrophies.

    You really are sad, and your little friends Mud Kitty and Cliff need to do the same. Sad sad sad. Pathetic little people who just need to hate. Pity for you.

  17. Terri,

    I have seen that so many times and I agree with it more and more everytime I read it.

    Speaking of Mackie, I emailed him a few nights ago to give him the heads up about a care package or two he is going to be getting from a VA Hospital that I do some volunteer work for. He sent me an email back that made me sob like a baby. He is one of my many, many reasons why I will continue to stand my troops!

  18. I was just getting ready to head out the door and back to work and ran across this. I thought I’d post it, as it seems very fitting for this thread. CJ, CplM, Patriot, SNAFU, Little Green Army Man, Craig, Mackie, All the Troops I know and love, as well as those I don’t…… THIS IS FOR YOU! Love you guys and I’m Thankful for you every day!

    You stay up for 16 hours

    He stays up for days on end.
    _________________________

    You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

    He goes days or weeks without running water.
    __________________________

    You complain of a “headache”, and call in sick.

    He gets shot at as others are hit, and keeps moving forward.
    __________________________

    You put on your anti war/don’t support the troops shirt, and go meet up with your friends.

    He still fights for your right to wear that shirt.
    __________________________

    You make sure you’re cell phone is in your pocket.

    He clutches the cross hanging on his chain next to his dog tags.
    __________________________

    You talk trash about your “buddies” that aren’t with you.

    He knows he may not see some of his buddies again.
    __________________________

    You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls.

    He walks the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.
    _________________________

    You complain about how hot it is.

    He wears his heavy gear, not daring to take off his helmet to wipe his brow.
    __________________________

    You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order wrong.

    He doesn’t get to eat today.
    __________________________

    Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

    He wears the same things for weeks, but makes sure his weapons are clean.
    __________________________

    You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

    He doesn’t have time to brush his teeth today.
    __________________________

    You’re angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

    He’s told he will be held over an extra 2 months.
    __________________________

    You call your girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

    He waits for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.
    __________________________

    You hug and kiss your girlfriend, like you do everyday.

    He holds his letter close and smells his love’s perfume.
    __________________________

    You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

    He gets a letter with pictures of his new child, and wonders if they’ll ever meet
    __________________________

    You criticize your government, and say that war never solves anything.

    He sees the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why he is fighting.
    __________________________

    You hear the jokes about the war, and make fun of men like him.

    He hears the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.
    __________________________

    You see only what the media wants you to see.

    He sees the broken bodies lying around him.
    __________________________

    You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don’t.

    He does exactly what he is told.
    __________________________

    You stay at home and watch TV.

    He takes whatever time he is given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.
    __________________________

    You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

    He crawls under a tank for shade and a 5 minute nap, only to be woken by gunfire.
    __________________________

    You sit there and judge him, saying the world is probably a worse place because of men like him.

    If only there were more men like him

  19. I have to go back to work in just a few minutes, but found this and thought I’d post it, as it pretty much sums up my sentiments about our Troops:

    You stay up for 16 hours

    He stays up for days on end.
    _________________________

    You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

    He goes days or weeks without running water.
    __________________________

    You complain of a “headache”, and call in sick.

    He gets shot at as others are hit, and keeps moving forward.
    __________________________

    You put on your anti war/don’t support the troops shirt, and go meet up with your friends.

    He still fights for your right to wear that shirt.
    __________________________

    You make sure you’re cell phone is in your pocket.

    He clutches the cross hanging on his chain next to his dog tags.
    __________________________

    You talk trash about your “buddies” that aren’t with you.

    He knows he may not see some of his buddies again.
    __________________________

    You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls.

    He walks the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.
    _________________________

    You complain about how hot it is.

    He wears his heavy gear, not daring to take off his helmet to wipe his brow.
    __________________________

    You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order wrong.

    He doesn’t get to eat today.
    __________________________

    Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

    He wears the same things for weeks, but makes sure his weapons are clean.
    __________________________

    You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

    He doesn’t have time to brush his teeth today.
    __________________________

    You’re angry because your class ran 5 minutes over.

    He’s told he will be held over an extra 2 months.
    __________________________

    You call your girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

    He waits for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.
    __________________________

    You hug and kiss your girlfriend, like you do everyday.

    He holds his letter close and smells his love’s perfume.
    __________________________

    You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

    He gets a letter with pictures of his new child, and wonders if they’ll ever meet
    __________________________

    You criticize your government, and say that war never solves anything.

    He sees the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers why he is fighting.
    __________________________

    You hear the jokes about the war, and make fun of men like him.

    He hears the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.
    __________________________

    You see only what the media wants you to see.

    He sees the broken bodies lying around him.
    __________________________

    You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don’t.

    He does exactly what he is told.
    __________________________

    You stay at home and watch TV.

    He takes whatever time he is given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.
    __________________________

    You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

    He crawls under a tank for shade and a 5 minute nap, only to be woken by gunfire.
    __________________________

    You sit there and judge him, saying the world is probably a worse place because of men like him.

    If only there were more men like him

  20. I have a hard time controlling my temper when I hear this Bush lied garbage. Am I the only one to remember the Clinton years where EVERY day we were told about the dangers that Sadaam Hussein presented to the civilized world??? Over and over and over again, with the inference that Bush One botched the job in the Gulf Wars and should have finished him off. Bush lied?? Politics. Pure and Simple. And a lot of “simple” people fell for it.

  21. You know I have to agree with Wohlford. As typical of the media, they forget to talk about all the positive things our soldiers, like SNAFU, CplM, Patriot, my son and many many others are doing in Iraq and other countries. All of the roads rebuilt, power restored (where there was none before), schools rebuilt and equipped, children going to school who never had the opportunity before. I could go on and on about the progress these brave men and women are making. In fact, I think once I get back home from work this evening, I’ll have some things to post about that. Until then…….

  22. HOW MANY WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN UNDER SADAAM INSANE????
    YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE. NOT EAT WHAT IS FED TO YOU. TAKE TIME TO HUNT YOUR OWN FOOD.

  23. “I THINK PEOPLE LIKE NEPHI NEED TO TAKE A TRIP TO IRAQ AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW GOOD THINGS ACTUALLY ARE NOW THAT THE TYRANT HAS BEEN DEFEATED.”

    Yeh, things are great. Only 3,000 innocent Iraqis killed last month by insurgents and militias, give or take a couple hundred.

  24. THANKS FOR THE LOVE AND SUPPORT TO ALL. I AM VERY PROUD OF MY BROTHER AND WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS. I AM PROUD OF MY NEPHEW FOR PRE ENLISTING. IF I COULD BE THERE WITH THEM I WOUL DBE THERE. I THINK PEOPLE LIKE NEPHI NEED TO TAKE A TRIP TO IRAQ AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT HOW GOOD THINGS ACTUALLY ARE NOW THAT THE TYRANT HAS BEEN DEFEATED. NOW THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO RUN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES. WE HAVE TERRORISTS IN OUR COUNTRY TOO… THEY DONT USE GUNS, THEY USE WORDS. ATTACKING PEOPLE WITH VALUES IN ORDER TO PUSH THEIR NARROW MINDED AGENDA. I PRAY FOR THESE PEOPLE DAILY. THEY DON’T KNOW THE DAMAGE THEY DO.

  25. Just to fix my type O the last sentence should say “has no right to make a statement back.

  26. Roxi,

    I agree with your post but someone like Nephi will disagree with you and tell you that is called “freedom of Speech” but yet if President Bush then made a statement back in his defense Nephi will tell you that he should be tried as a war criminal and has to right to make a statement back…

  27. In the media, two ex-President’s have been making negative statements concerning these issues. Both of the ex-Presidents are Democrats. Ex-Presidents by tradition did not speak out and give their opinions in this way.

    One ex-President was President Carter, the man who brought the Islamic revolutionary terrorism because he mismanaged the Iran hostage crisis in 1979, has no room to be critical of President Bush. Such conduct is unprofessional and unpresidental.

  28. Hey Neph,

    I am very honored that you think of me that much to put my name in your comments over and over. Thank you pal.
    I think of you pretty much NEVER. You are not that bit important to me.

    You are the type of person who will haunt this blog for a while and move on to another one you can haunt with your thoughts and comments. (stiring the pot). People like Sue, Terri, myself and others will always be here to support CJ, CPL. M and all the others here.

    Sue, you are better then me because not only would I never throw him peanuts he isnt worth the shells.

  29. Hey Wohlford!!! So glad to have you in our little inner circle!! I know for a fact you are good people!! Welcome!! OH poor poor Nephi. You are the one who is doing all the bad things here. You fail to recognize sarcasm, you take a persons words and twist them into your own little contorted ideas of what you wish people had said so that you can look smart. But alas. More of the same. If you go back under your bridge i will throw you some peanuts.

  30. You fit right in with Lauren and Sue on this blog, Wohlford. An opinion you disagree with gets name calling and ad hominem attack for response; but I have faith that you will rise above that tactic, as you appear a bit more informed.

    On one point, we agree. Both sides are to blame, and I will never forgive the Dems in congress for not seeing through the Decider’s lies and misrepresentations. If all the Dems had the guts shown by Pelosi, Feingold and a few others, the picture might be quite different today.

    We also agree that the troops deserve our support, including those 46 percent of active troops who disagree with Bush’s handling of the Iraq war as reported in the 2005 Military Times poll (http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2005_main.php), an increase of 9% from the same poll conducted in 2004. Want to bet what the 2006 poll will say when it is released?

  31. Granted, Bush may be a fool, but can you name a single politician that’s led us right? He’s doing the best he can with a limited education. The Bush Administration hasn’t done much right, but I believe the war in Iraq is one necessary evil we must live with. Remember, the Clinton Administration gave rewards for leaving the military; Clinton ignored threats from terroristic tyrants; but he also put a great dent in the national debt. Bush stormed Iraq based on intel. that he and his administration failed to properly analyze; Bush returned the national debt to it’s prior depressing state; but Bush is also rebuilding the cities and streets of Iraq when he could have easily blown it off as casualties of war and collateral damage. Democrat… Republican… you guys are arguing like you’re stuck in a civil war of your own. Why not just accept the fact that there are some things that need to happen no matter how pointless they may seem/be?

    Shi’ite happens.

  32. So what you are trying to say One Nephi, is that you have your head up your butt and are a puppet to the liberal media that fill your head with half truths and control your actions. Is that what you are trying to say. NO ONE is innocent in this whole thing. Both parties are to blame. I thinkit is more important not to minimize what is going on in Iraq. We need to support our troops including the commander in chief. People like you do nothing but bring the troops down.

  33. Wohlford,

    Wasn’t part of the intelligence you refer the admonition that Osama was planning an attack on the United States? If you answer yes, then you are correct. And like everything else the Bush administration was told by the former administration, they ignored or discredited the information, which was a big and costly mistake!

    Bottom line: Bush lied and misrepresented the facts on the ground in Iraq and elsewhere to suit his neo-con agenda. No WMB; no link to Osama and no connection with yellow-cake uranium from Niger. And to this day, the guy cannot tell a straight story concerning the events leading to the invasion. I hope Congress impeaches his sorry butt and hands him over to the Hague for trial on war crimes – he deserves nothing less.

  34. Wohlford, first off, welcome to the blog! It’s nice to have you join us. I’m sure SNAFU will enjoy having you stop by here. I agree with your comments about the Clinton Administration and having been saying just that. Of course, sometimes people have a tendency to take bits and pieces of what you post and twist it around to suit their own interests, so don’t be surprised if that doesn’t happen. Somehow, it always does!

  35. Remember Bush was acting on Intelligence from the Clinton Administration. It was the Democrats that pushed the vote to go into the country. It was Clinton that had two of the twin towers pilots in custody and let them go. So if MUDKITTY wants to throw rocks she better watch her own windows.

  36. Good to hear from you, SNAFU!!
    I’m always glad to hear from the boots on the ground and what you are seeing.

  37. Pingback: Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » Civil War!!!

  38. Snafu,
    Thanks so much for posting and thank you for your service to our country!! You guys are the best!!

  39. Sorry to inform you, CB, but you appear to be locked in a country of idiots (ho hum, more right-wing ad hominem for lack of anything else to say), as a majority of Americans don’t appear to agree with your little diatribe.

    Nobody is saying Iraq is Vietnam. The comparison between the two, rather, focuses on the quagmire aspect – and Iraq is fast becoming (or already has become) a Vietnam-like quagmire. Even us idiots can see that.

    But I am particularly intrigued by your statement that “communism wasn’t dangerous.” Seems as though the entire point of Vietnam was to stop the threatened spread of Communism. You may recall various leaders – e.g., Lenin and Stalin – whose terrorist treatment of their peoples were used as justification for waging war in Vietnam. But I guess the tens of millions of folks killed by these “softies” don’t amount to much of a danger in your mind, at least insofar as your comment indicates.

    Finally, based also on your comment, I see little solution in your mind other than the total destruction of all followers of Islam (which, by the way, extends far beyond the Middle East). That solution is, however, not feasible. We need something else short of the descrution of all Muslims, at least from a practical standpoint. And that might just require some hard choices by Americans, such as, for example, weaning ourselves from our dependence on foreign oil.

    Yeh, I know, I am just a weak-kneed liberal who is an idiot.

  40. Almost forgot:
    SNAFU, Thank you for your service to our country and for keeping my family safe.
    God Bless and Protect you and your brothers in harms way.
    SEMPER FI
    2/2

  41. I’m sick of hearing this conflict being compared to Viet Nam.
    Totally different TO’s; totally different reasons for fighting.

    VN was (supposedly) about stopping the spread of communism in SE Asia. The Domino Theory and all that. We lost that one at home, not on the battlefield, thanks to the efforts of the extreme left.

    Communists didn’t strap on bombs and walk into pizza parlors or board busses. They didn’t fly planes into buildings. They didn’t have to. They were infinitely more subtle than that.

    Communism wasn’t dangerous; they didn’t want to kill the populations of the countries they overthrew, they needed them to make things work.
    At least the communists allowed a certain amount of freedom, as long as you were quiet.

    Communism self-destructed because it wasn’t self-sustaining. There are still communist regimes in existence, but the people are poor, ill-fed, and if given the chance, would leave in a New York minute.

    Islamofascists are dangerous. They want total destruction of Western society and the elimination of Christians, Jews and “infidels”. There are enough “true-believers” willing to give their lives to further this goal. Iran and Syria are prime examples.
    There is no room for any belief other than Islam. This about religion, not ideology.

    The same people who worked to foment anti-war sentiment during Viet Nam are still around, still working hard, and the difference now is this:

    If they succeed this time, we won’t just lose the War on Terror, it will be the end of America, the end of Israel, the end of Western culture and the end of civilization.

    Anyone who can’t see that is an idiot.

  42. Well, SSG Rock, I guess we won’t be tagging you as a liberal, will we?

    Couple of points: First, an underlying theme to your post is that we can achieve “victory” in Iraq. That is not, however, clear, and many well positioned military leaders, academics and politicians now openly dispute that victory can be achieved at any cost. Indeed, when Bush is pushed to even define victory, he and/or Tont Snow fall all over themselves with evasive feel-good rhetoric that says nothing, really.

    Second, don’t confuse a desire to do what is best for America (and for Iraq) as a yellow streak. This is just talking-point rhetoric that is not terribly helpful. Bottom line, if the military, academics and politicians conclude that victory is simply not achievable (and, as mentioned above, many are starting to so conclude), then why prolong the inevitable? We tried that in Vietnam, and I am sure that you don’t need to be counseled as to the unfortunate consequense of that decision.

    And finally, what makes you think that voter fraud did not occur in the last election? Sure, the Dems won, but the margins were tight, especially in Virginia and Montana. Maybe there just wasn’t enough voter fraud. And gee, I would like to know where the missing 18,000 votes in the Florida congressional race went, wouldn’t you.

    I appreciate your service, sir, but your comment appears surprisingly partisan, notwithstanding, however, your independent status.

  43. The “reasons” for going to Iraq have been a moving target at best. Before anyone tags me as liberal or conservative, I’m a registerd Independent with a very wide conservative streak. I’m also retired Army, combat veteran, 60% disabled. I hold the Bush administration responsible for their decisions, I also think that Rumsfeld has been the single biggest impediment to success in Iraq up to the day of his resignation. You can argue and scream and whine about Bush and intelligence all you want. But I can also post scads of links from liberal Democrats who also agreed that Saddam needed to be taken out, regardless of the reason, it needed to be done, WMDs are a moot point now, who really cares? We need to deal with the issues we have on our plate now. Because while the progressives and liberals scream about Bush, a deadly enemy is indeed planning for more attacks on US soil, and they will happen. Thats what we need to focus on. What really galls me is the yellow streak that the American left has running down the middle of their backs. This is an insurgency, and it isn’t. It’s a civil war, and it isn’t. It’s something we have never really dealt with before. But, it will take a long time to subdue, and we can subdue it, we should subdue it. For if we pack up and leave Iraq, our reputation will be hamstrung worse than if we keep our promise and see the job through to a satisfactory end. Lets also be clear, the liberals simply don’t want Bush to be able to claim a modicum of success in Iraq, to them, that is the worst possible outcome. To deny Bush the opportunity to say we accomplished the mission is their number one priority and they seem willing to do and say almost anything to that end. I also have a very strong feeling that the Democrats have never recoverd from the elections of 2000 and 2004. Voter fraud! Stolen election! Well, now that the Democrats are living their wet dream of taking the majority in congress, where is the hue and cry of voter fraud, stolen election?! Isn’t it funny how the Republicans never seem to resort to that tactic and how the Democrats are stone cold silent on the topic? Makes me laugh.

  44. I am new to this site, so forgive me if this idea has been debated here before. Why not offer the Iraqi people a chance to vote on whether their country should be occupied by foreign armies? If they vote no, then we should withdraw ASAP. The latest poll indicates 71 percent of Iraqis want the Americans to leave.

  45. I agree with Mudkitty 100%.

    There seems to be an implicit theme on this blog that if one doesn’t speak to soldiers on the ground in Iraq, regularly, then one cannot possibly know anything about what is going on there. That’s ridiculous. The second theme, as MK points out, is a liberal viewpoint on this blog is worthy of ad hominem and not much else – look at Lauren’s posts for a great example. That’s far from productive and illustrates viewpoints that are, at best, sliding around on very thin ice.

    But here’s a question worth pondering: If everyone is so dang certain that Bush did not lie – or seriously misrepresent the available evidence – prior to invading Iraq, will you folks agree then that some investigations are in order to find out exactly what was known and when? After all, if Bush has nothing to hide …. I can already see the motions to quash coming from the WH. Nevertheless, investigations should and must be carried out to recapture to integrity of the political process in Washington and to restore some baseline form of transparency to that process.

    MK also hits the nail on the head. There is nothing more ridiculous than following a dumb idea to its foreseeable and violence-packed end. Many, many folks saw this war as not only dumb, but stupid of epic degree. Yet Bush hoodwinked enough support from his stargazed supporters to put his most awesome adventure into action – an adventure that had been in the planning prior to 9/11. I, for one, will do what I can to argue for change – including engaging Syria and Iran in dialogue to bring an end to the madness through means other than “stay the course.”

    BTW. I just cannot help but think how the tenor of the posts and comments on this blog would be had a Democrat made the costly decisions that Bush has made. You folks would be raging lunatics in calling for impeachment, etc. Don’t deny it, ’cause you know it’s true.

    I guess it’s all about whose ox is being gored or, better yet, which political party the ox being gored belongs.

  46. WMD’s weren’t found, even Bush admits that. Only the mooooost deluded think that wmds were found. BTW – ad hominem (look it up) will lose you points in a formal debate.

    And yes, I talk to soldiers all the time, they’re not all rabid ritghtwing war mongers. I have a personal friend over there now, and members of my family have served.

    Truth is true, and doesn’t need your vote, but it does bear repeating, as with the Bush lied us into war truth.

  47. Holy cow! You’re still on that “Bush lied” Kook-Aid? Come on Muddy, there’s gotta be something original (and accurate) that you can come up with besides the “Bush lied” lie. It’s so old and just played out. Are you trying to convince yourself and that’s why you keep saying it? I mean, really, I’m confused. How much evidence does CJ have to SHOW you before you stop and smell the sarin or mustard gas?

  48. My, My Muddy thats such a big girl post. Did you get an adult to help you out???

    WMD were found. CJ was there and saw…Where have you ever been??? I know either your daddy or your hubby told you so eh??

    Once again you;re doubting or arguing with men who were there and are there versus what you have read in a newspaper or saw on the news. You are a perfect example of why this country is going to be in BIG trouble..

  49. But when the president makes a promise on behalf of the American people, especially in matters of war and peace, life and death, the least he could have done was not lie about WMDs. But he had to lie. He wouldn’t have had the backing of the people going in, if it weren’t for his WMD lies.

    Bush built his “promise” on a house of cards. It’s never wise to follow a leader over a cliff.

    To answer your question, “why now?” It’s not just now. Libs and other sane people have been saying it’s a civil war for months, if not years. Two factions, fighting within a so-called “Nation” where the rule of law and order is suspended – replaced by militeristic violence & fighting over state power and dominence – that’s the very definition of a civil war.

    To go further: It’s not just “now.” Before the invasion, in the build up to/marketing of the war, libs and other sane people PREDICTED the invasion would lead to an occupation, which would then unleash a civil war in Iraq. (You won’t know this if you only read rightwing rags, and listen to drugRush.)

    To go even further: I, and many people I know, PREDICTED, even during Campaign 2000, even before the so-called election, that when Bush promised not to be a “nation builder” during the debates, he was lying.

    Watching Bush’s first inaguration on TV, my husband turned to me and said “You just know he’s going to find some excuse to wage war in Iraq.” This was, obvioulsy, before 9/11.

  50. Hi SNAFU,

    I agree with your opinion 100%. Great post.

  51. First off, hi sweetie. I couldn’t agree with you more, when we make a promise, let’s keep it. Enough said.

  52. Hi SNAFU!

    Thank you for your insight – as always, it is valued.

    I agree completely with your last paragraph – which is why we still have troops in Kosovo, Korea, Germany, Japan, etc….

    Stay Safe!

  53. Hey, SNAFU, great to have you back. Keep you head down and your helmet on, though. It’s civil war on the blog (or something). 🙂 BTW are you sure there wasn’t civil war in Iraq BEFORE we took out the old government?

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