Is It Really That Bad In Iraq

You know, I’m actually tired of complaining about the MSM. I’ve written letters, left voicemails, and sent emails to no avail. Curt, over at Flopping Aces, has dug deep to expose the MSM’s soft underbelly of corruption and conspiracy with regard to their reporting about our war in Iraq. Especially alarming are the recent reports of overwhelming violence and inhumanity in the country.

H/T to Wordsmith.

79 Comments on “Is It Really That Bad In Iraq

  1. Wow,
    Every debate you guys post becomes interesting. Hey Flopping Aces, thank you, thank you, thank you. If only the kids at my school or my mom could open their ears and hear that statement because we all need to hear that. That statement speaks for alot of people like the families who aren’t like Cindy Sheehan, and soldiers like my friends Jeff Wadleigh, Robert, Sergeant Zarate, Sergeant Mike Sullivant, or Nick J which all have been to or are in iraq. We would all really need to hear that. Afterall why doesn’t anybody else realize that whatever incident the news reports doesn’t represent the situation in all of Iraq? Given that something not out of the ordinary isn’t newsworthy. Having said that, and having been blessed so much in my life with a good education, family and friends, and most of all the soldiers above that inspire me and gaurd me. I hope to take that education and motivation to new limits and help those who don’t have those things. I am not afraid to sign up into the military and get sent to the Middle East or Africa, Asia, South Europe(any of their third world nations), or in South America. Actually, I dream of being a soldier all the time, in school or at home. To every soldier serving in military, I want to say that you have a tough job, with sacrifices that are nothing short of painful, and that I appreciate your efforts to secure some of the world’s most volatile places because you fighting your hearts out inspire me. I feel you guys always do a great job, like what George Orwell said “we sleep comfortably at night while soldiers stand ready to confront violence” (or something like that), and I wish to be side by side with you even though I might be insufficient to fill your boots. I hope this does not sound fanatical, I am just being as honest as I can.

  2. Ohhh poor poor nephi. one has only to read your posts to know you, as you have claimed to know me and lauren. What a shame. Rage you say huh? Nahh!! I use sarcasm nephi. too those who are intellegent they get my humor and recognize it for what it is. To those not so fortunate they might mistake it for something else. hmmm now let me see. Which group is poor poor nephi in??? And as for your twisting of my words, have at it man. you need the mental exercise obviously. Hoping for ya though that one day, you too will come into the light and maybe understand things a little better. And not just using hatred to get your little jollys off. But if I can make your day, be my guest. Have at it. Because I have other people to care about who are a whole lot more important than you. But I will pray for your soul while I sip my Kool Aid in my Un American house loving my Amazing Father with my shades on. And be very happy knowing that you cant stand me, and what I say gets your skin crawling.

  3. Pingback: Flopping Aces » Blog Archive » Civil War!!!

  4. Glad to see you finally come around, mudkitty. One at a time, that’s my motto.

  5. It’s not a civil war! It’s not! It’s not! It’s not!!!!

  6. Nephi,

    How dare you speak to me in a blog for about 5 posts and claim you know me and Sue also for that matter.

    My emotions didnt get to me at all. What got to me was humor. The humor I see in your posts. Your “matter of factly posts”. Your “I know everything posts”!!!

    Have you ever served in the military? Have you ever been in a warzone?? I cant wait to see how you turn that question around in what you think is in your favor!!

  7. From my experiences with military personnel over the years, regardless of their feelings for the person who is Commander In Chief, they will continue to do their jobs, they’ll show the Commander In Chief the respect the office deserves, even if they don’t agree with the way that person would conduct themselves in office. They showed that with Slick Willie and I’m sure if Hillary were elected, they’d do the same. The one thing about our men and women in the military is that they learn respect and use it on a daily basis, with everyone they meet, military and civilians alike.

  8. You are absolutely correct, Terri. I stand corrected. Unlike Sue and Lauren, who really let their emotions get the better of them, and for the worse, I like the way you think – rationally and without alot of baseless ad hominem attack.

    But the question still stands: “Were Hillary elected president, should all those folks who hate her guts – and I agree that many, many folks hate her guts – put that hatred aside and show her respect as commander-in-chief, even if these same folks flat out disagree with the way she might prosecute the war?”

  9. Well Nephi, this young soldier had just came back from Baghdad and he said that in most areas of Baghdad, things aren’t as bad as the media would lead you to believe, but only in certain areas of the city. And you know what? I think I’d come much closer to believing what someone says who’s BEEN THERE and not someone who gets their information from the media. Let’s put it into a little perspective here: New York City for example… there are areas of that city where the crime rate is extremely high, the gangs are fighting amongst themselves and it’s dangerous to be in the area. There are other areas of that very same city, that are very safe for people to live in, walk around in and raise their families in. That’s the point this young soldier was making.

  10. First off the only ones here I see that are getting hotheaded and crazy are Cliff and Nephi…All because nobody wants to see your point and agree with it.

    As far as Hillary I couldn’t have given a rats ass about her. Hey if she wants to look like a fool when your husband is getting blow jobs and it becomes national news and you stand by his side so be it. My feelings for here became an issue when the hours after 9/11 and the President was holding a news conference about the murders of innocent people and the camera narrowed in on her and Bill and there she is laughing in his ear and yawning away.

    To me not only was that disrespectful but disgusting!!! She will never beome President she is not well liked to put it nicely.

  11. Terri,

    Let’s peek beneath the surface for a minute. The total population of Iraq is somewhere on the order of 25 million. The population for Baghdad is somewhere around 6 million and the population for Anbar province in on the order of 1 million. So with just these two areas, we have nearly one third of the population of Iraq in a big mess, to put it mildly. Add in a few more cities and the percentage of folks living the big mess increases substantially.

    Sure seems like a big mess to me. But then again, I have always been one of those glass-half-empty kind of thinkers when it comes to war and the slaughter of thousands of American soldiers.

  12. All I can say about the possibility of Hillary being elected President is : God Help The United States if that should happen.

    Today I spoke with a young soldier on Fort Hood with 4ID who just returned from Iraq less than 2 weeks ago, and found what he had to say very interesting, considering the subject of this particular post. We were discussing the war and his comment was, “Don’t believe what the media is saying. They’re making it out to be a lot worse than what it is over there. Sure there are still soldiers getting killed, but most of what’s going on right now is the Sunni’s and the Shite’s fighting against each other and that’s only in a couple of places where there are large populations of both. Most places in Iraq are pretty calm and quietly rebuilding with the help of our troops and other Coalition Forces.” I thanked him for his service and sacrifices and went on about my day, as he attended yet another briefing.

  13. Sue,

    According to your argument, regardless of the worthiness, honesty, practicality, or legality of the war, we should NOT criticize once engaged, and by your logic, because of the troop’s feelings.

    This is the most unamerican, unpatriotic, wrong reason possible.

    In addition, what say you about the troops and high ranking officers who disagree with this war and believe, as do most people on this planet, that this war is wrong bad and lost?

    Get a frigging grip.

    Are you an American, or a crazed militaristic authoritarian KOOL-AID drinking, father-complexed, blind rube?

  14. Yikes!! Do I detect a little anger in your prose, Sue?

    Just for you, I went back and read through my comments. The main point I am trying to make is that it is not fair to suggest that those who criticize Bush cannot at the same time support our troops. If a discussion on this topic elicites the rage in your comment, I truely feel for you.

    You don’t know a single thing about me, yet you brand me a troll, kool aide drinker, spewer, etc. Nice going and congratulations. I will, nevertheless, refrain from that kind of posting, as it serves little purpose other than to elicit the same in response.

    At any rate, I guess you then, too, will put aside your animosity toward Hillary if she is elected; because to do otherwise would be to show disrespect for the troops? Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways.

  15. Nephi, you will never be my friend, it would insult those I do call friend. Your poor pathetic arguments really are stale and old. The words in my mouth, on my lips and in my heart and brain all come from me. I don’t engage in talking points as you do. I deal with truths and realities. You my friend live life in Candy Land sipping cherry Kool Aid. And I stand behind my statement because it was correct. You just twisted it in your perverse manner to vomit up yet more of your spew. I will answer your pathetic question about how you aren’t really supporting the troops.

    If you were, first of all, you would actually KNOW a Soldier or Marine. Which I don’t believe you do, for one second and probably no one else here does either. Second, support for the troops does come in many forms. Protesting the war, sliming the President, and calling the cause that these fabulous men and women are fighting and dying for a sham and a lie, is not support. That is demeaning their job, mission, and their lives and the blood of their brothers and sisters on the battlefield. But I’m quite sure that you will not understand that either.

    Please, enlighten this WHOLE BLOG!!! What did you say when your lying, cheating, draftdodging Commander in Chief was sending our troops into Bosnia. I don’t recall Bosnia invading the US. I don’t recall Bosnia killing three thousand of our people. Where were the WMD’s in Bosnia?? HUH??? What pray tell is the criteria that was acceptable to you for THAT war???? I DO however recall cut and run. I DO recall Monica under the desk. I DO recall THAT MAN with HIS finger in MY face LYING his butt off, and his ignorant wife standing beside him blaming the VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY for Willie’s Willie being where it shouldn’t. I also know that it is a proven fact that the terrorists, or for you vocabulary challenged trolls, the bad guys, have studied the movie, Black Hawk Down, the depiction of one of Clinton’s finest hours as President. You all seem to forget that little bit of “news” right?? Where were all you big shot protesters of war then??? Huh???

    And for you MUD, the melon stand would be my choice for news. Because as long as the ignorant continue to eat up the propaganda on the MSM, which we all know you are so fond of, we will have to deal with those kinds of “stories” and I mean that in the fairy tale sense of the word. Oh, and the terrorists know their audiences. They are a lot smarter than you hon. They know that a little bomb strategically placed will make the 6 oclock news in the US. THEY wanted the Dems in office because they are weak and have no courage, strength or guts. As I have said before, time will tell and only history will write Bush’s epitaph. Thank God we have a President who is more interested in the security of our nation than where to stuff a cigar. And just for you Nephi and Mud, History will write Clinton’s too.

  16. That large banner, from my limited understanding, was the Navy’s idea; and for the crew of the USS Lincoln, their mission was accomplished. Major combat operations had ended. And as one commenter on my blog had written a while back:

    I believe that a lot of people have misunderstood the message of “Mission Accomplished”. It was 3 years ago that the President landed on that fine ship and told me that my husband was coming home. And for him and everyone else on that very long, very stressful deployment their mission was accomplished. Publicity stunt or not it was a great day for many.

    This from wikipedia, for what that’s worth:

    Navy Commander and Pentagon spokesman Conrad Chun stated that the banner referred specifically to the aircraft carrier’s 10-month deployment (which was the longest deployment of a carrier since the Vietnam War) and not the war itself, saying “It truly did signify a mission accomplished for the crew.”

  17. CJ says:

    “I%u2019ll try to explain the big words for you:

    %u201CMajor combat operations in Iraq have ended.%u201D

    Hmm%u2026there weren%u2019t any big words there. Guess you%u2019ll have to go back to Pre-K to figure that one out.”

    Correct me if I am wrong, CJ, but the president uttered this series of small words – as you describe them – under a very large banner that proudly proclaimed: “Mission Accomplished.” And those, my friend, are words that even certain “pre-k” students such as myself (thank you very much for the compliment) understand!

  18. And if Hillary were to become president in 2008, is it fair to say that you, Lauren, will dispense with the hatred and support her, because to do otherwise would be to show disrespect for the troops? Maybe under that senario my point makes a little more sense to you.

  19. Nephi,

    I was trying to classy about my reply. Do you send care packages? do you send letters or cards? Do you correspond with any Soldier/Marine? OR do you just sit on the computer in blogs and use big words and tell people what they believe is wrong?? I am nobody to tou to tell you what means you should use to support the troops..

    I have the God given right to feel if one doesnt support the President then one deosnt support the troops.

    I unlike you do not spew off crap. My believes on Clinton were my beliefs and I didn’t go around talking crap about him. The only time I spoke ill of him is how dare he get a blow job in the White House and then lie, lie and lie about it..

    If you want to talk about the one I really hate and speak ill about his Clinton’s boss…HILLARY!!

  20. Lauren,

    Now your comment goes cross ways. Your first paragraph states – I think – that support for the troops is a personal matter, and there is no fixed criteria for measuring whether one’s means of support is sufficient or not. In other words, praying for the safety of the troops could, in and of itself, be sufficient.

    But then you jump right back on the thesis that if one doesn’t support Bush, then one cannot support the troops – i.e., the positions are mutually exclusive. And that is where I passionately disagree.

    Look at it this way. I am guessing that you have little good to say about Bill Clinton and, during his presidency, hesitated not in expressing your disapproval (or we can assume for the sake of discussion that many others on this blog and elsewhere fit into that category). By your thesis, then, whenever you or anyone else spoke disapprovingly toward Clinton, you likewise spoke disapprovingly of every single soldier under his command. And this, of course makes absolutely no sense.

    The thesis of mutual exclusivity – i.e., you either support Bush or do not support the troops – is a non sequiter. It simply doesn’t make sense.

  21. Nephi,

    How you choose or not choose to support the troops is your business. I am nobody to call your support sufficent or insufficent. My only concern is how I support them.

    You tell me how disagreeing with President Bush and the Iraq War allows you to support the troops? If you disagree with their cause then how can you support them?

    How can you talk about not being willing to consider the viewpoints of others when you dont? You have your beliefs and I have mine I just dont try sticking them down anyones throat.

  22. Lauren,

    At a minimum, I support the troops through prayer and concern. Is that ok? Or are these means of support not sufficient?

    My question to you, however, is why do you believe (or at least give the appearance of believing) that disagreement with Bush and the Iraq war is mutually exclusive of supporting the troops?

    I mean, come on, if I disagree with Bush and his social security policy, does that mean that I do not support the aged? Of course it does not!

    This tired argument that you either support Bush or do not support the troops is ridiculous and merely evidences an unwillingness to consider the viewpoints of others. The argument was also soundly rejected by the voting electorate (or at least those who took the time to vote) in 2006.

  23. Nephi,

    What makes you think that your opinion is right and Sue and everyone elses here (except Mud because her opinions dont even count as a thoughts) are wrong??

    Tell me how you support our troops? If you think that supporting the troops is by engaging in a verbal war of “Get them out” or “Send them home” or “Bush Sucks” then that my friend is not support at all.

  24. Sue says: “I don%u2019t believe for a second that any of you %u201Csupport our troops%u201D or wish for them to succeed.”

    This comment evidences why we will never agree on anything. Sue, my friend, I am greatful for the efforts you take to support the military, as I suspect are the individuals that you converse with. Notwithstanding, why on earth would you throw such a comment at me? You accuse me of quoting stock liberal talking points, and then turn around and throw out one of the most ridiculous Rovian talking points that exists today.

    At any rate, your thesis is wrong, wrong, wrong. I, and millions of other Americans, can disagree with the war and virtually everything that dribbles from Bush’s mouth, yet still support the troops. Your suggestion otherwise evidences a true inability or unwillingness to comprehend the varied positions on this horribly illconceived war on terror being waged in Iraq.

  25. Aargh! Sorry about my previous double posts, the 2nd of which is messed up on the bottom.

    Got the following update from Curt:

    Centcom has confirmed this Capt. Jamil Hussein, the one and only source for alot of this mayhem reporting is NOT a employee of the Ministry of Interior nor is he a police Capt.

  26. Which is news…someone opens a melon stand, or a Thanksgiving Day massacre?

  27. I respect everyone’s opinion even though it may differ from mine. I never try to change anyone’s belief and I NEVER post name calling when that someone starts trying to prove to me why my belief is wrong and theirs is right.

    To me to be able to disagree or have different opinions on things is just another reason to thank our military.

  28. “ALL serving personel are well trained about how to speak about the war.”

    Maybe you can verse me, seeing as how you know more about the military than my past 12 years of active duty service, about this ‘training’ you speak of. I’ve been deployed numerous times and haven’t received this training. As a matter of fact, the only thing I’ve been told when it comes to speaking to the media is that I “stay in my lane”. That means I speak about MY experiences and not for the Army. If I don’t know the answer, I shouldn’t make stuff up. So tell, O mighty bass pro, what this training is. I’ve never been provided with “talking points” nor have I imposed them on my soldiers. As a matter of fact, I was quoted quite frequently when my time in Fallujah was extended about my dissatisfaction with not going home when I thought I was by Reuters (although my comments were bastardized).

    “But we accomplished our mission, as stated by the commander-in-chief in May 2003, didn’t we??. Just what was our mission, anyway?”

    I apologize that the President didn’t use smaller words with fewer syllables here. Let me quote EXACTLY what Bush said on 1 May 2003 and I’ll try to explain the big words for you:

    “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended.”

    Hmm…there weren’t any big words there. Guess you’ll have to go back to Pre-K to figure that one out. That means that there is no more tank on tank, infantry against infantry, artillery against artillery. On 1 May, we formally moved into phase IV stability operations and away from major combat. It’s hardly major combat when a platoon or company conducts a raid against a terrorists safehouse. Am I going too fast for you?

    Our mission now is to stabilize Iraq and leave it able to defend itself. We are also defeating the terrorists that have made Iraq the central front in the war on terror. Note: Iraq is the central front, not America.

  29. Wow, I been missin all the fun here!!! Mud, Cliff, Nephi, greetings!!! Wow, you guys are going at it hammer and tongs here. Take a breath would ya?? Gosh. I am sooo looking for that book in Barnes and Noble where you guys get all that crap from!! My Goodness!! I don’t believe for a second that any of you “support our troops” or wish for them to succeed. I know its a myth!! All one has to do to draw that conclusion is read all your posts. Not just on this thread but throughout this blog!!

    We have had many on this site, who just like you sit there and spew the vomit that you have been fed by you beloved MSM. But truly, spare us. Because 99.9% of the people who come to this blog are the ones who are smart enough to know what dolts you all are. Nephi, honestly. You try so hard to sound intellegent, but your circumlocuitive way of talking lends itself more to say, bulls#$# than an argument.

    If any of you, ANY OF YOU, actually DID talk to the guys over there you would understand how important what they are doing over there is. I too have a catalogue full of pictures from my guys, of smiling children, Soldiers giving school supplies out in the schools they helped to rebuild after they cleaned the weapons caches out of them. I too have email after email and letter after letter that says exactly what Terri has been saying to you over and over again.

    But, what your problem is, is that you really DON’T WANT to hear anything that doesn’t support your view point. Cliff, get real about Clinton. He sucked man. Both literally and figuratively. Our military has been so degraded because of him and his crap. He was not the wonderful President you all make him out to be. And your willingness to stand by a lying adultering draft dodging con artist shows a lot about your character. Me personally, I’m backin the troops, what THEY say they want. You know why??? HMMMMM????

    It’s because I know, for a fact, that they got MY back. They stand watch and they tell me everything is ok. They tell me its ok to sleep well, to enjoy my day, to have what I need for my family. And you too, all of you, even though you go against EVERYTHING they stand for and believe.

    The media is hated by our Soldiers and Marines. There is no love there whatsoever, except the VERY FEW who were disgruntled. But then again, they get the coverage. Because THEY believe as the MSM agenda and so they are splashed across the news. We live in a free society and you have every right to believe what you want, think what you want, vote for who you want. But keep in mind, the price that is paid by our Military. They deserve your respect and you whole hearted support.

    It always amuses me how many of you say, “I support the troops but not the war or the President”. Well you know what, you don’t support the troops because if you did you would stand behind them and put your money and your votes where your mouth is. But you don’t. And you show it when you elect people like Kerry and Murtha and Kennedy and Pelosi into office and allow them to degrade our fine Servicemen and Women the way they do on the floor of the House and Senate. How many Servicemen or Women do you individually support?? How much time do you spend writing letters or sending care packages to make sure they understand that there actually ARE people back home who do give a DAMN (sorry for the swear cj) about who they are, what they are doing and let them know they are loved and cared about. How many Mud???? How many CLiff????? How many Nephi???? Hmmmm???? Give me your numbers!!!! I currently have 188 Soldiers and Marines. All of whom adore me, and at a moments notice would be here for me in a heartbeat. Can you make that claim??? Do you really think for one second they are fighting for you, the way they fight for me??? I can tell you the answer to that but you won’t like it. Because they have all told me. And you my friends will be up the creek without a paddle should it come down to it. Some day, you will all wake up. But you know what, I think it will be too late for all of you. God Bless you every one!!

  30. I appear to be apologetic to authority? Not hardly. The reason I mentioned that I see the media doing to the Military what they often do to Law Enforcement is because, being former Law Enforcement Officer myself, and having many friends still working in the Law Enforcement community across the country, I’ve seen it occur over and over again across the Nation… first hand. Are there people who commit bad acts in law enforcement and in the military? You bet there are, but they are very few and far between. But those are the ones who are constantly spread across the media, leading some impressionable people (there are plenty of those in this Country), who will believe without question what they hear or read in the media, to believe that all of them must be like that. Fortunately, the “bad” are the minority and the majority are fine, upstanding people who have a passion for their jobs and want to do “their part” in making their community or in the case of the military, the world a better place. As I said previously, we just never see the good deeds plastered across the media, because that doesn’t sell to the American public.

  31. Ok, at the risk of double posting, here’s my original 2 posts:

    then why did the Bush administration have so much difficulty with the 2006 elections?

    Among other things, frustrations with a Republican majority that wasn’t behaving like a majority. Then there’s the midterm election coverage, slanted in favor of the Democrats. Study from the Center for Media and Public Affairs:

    88% negative coverage for GOP; 77% positive coverage for the Democrats

    For gosh sakes, my friend, if things are that rosy in Iraq, then the Bush administration could virtually assure that such news reached the populace here in America, if such were, in fact, the case. Certainly Fox News could bring that info to us. The fact of the matter is, however, that such news is not getting to us, leaving us all to wonder why, including the electorate that booted Republicans out of office in Congress.

    FOX News does not reach anywhere near the audience that the Big 3 networks reach, combined with CNN, MSNBC, the CBC, the BBC, PBS, NPR, the NYTimes, the LA Times, the Washington Post, and the usual suspects of MSM.

    Part of the problem is a media that gravitates toward “if it bleeds, it leads”, sensationalist, negative news coverage. It makes it seem like the sky is always falling in the world. And of course another aspect is liberal bias, a media that is largely anti-war, and some that are anti-Bush agenda-driven journalism. How else do you expect people’s perception of the war to be colored, and world opinion shaped when you have the most influential paper in the U.S., the NYTimes, print 30 consecutive frontpage news stories on abu Ghraib in as many days?

    A great article worth the read is The Press at War. The influence that the media has on perception is enormous. And they are doing much harm by their imbalanced, drive-by brand of reporting. Most people have no idea that the escalation of violence is concentrated in only a couple of provinces, because the media is doing exactly what the enemy wants it to do. It’s the press, as much as anyone else, who can lose this war for us.did the Bush administration have so much difficulty with the 2006 elections?

    Among other things, frustration with a Republican majority not behaving like a majority; and this perhaps, regarding mid-term election coverage:

    GOP gets 88% bad press; Dems get 77% good press.

  32. *sigh*….ok, great. What happened to my previous two posts? It said my comments were awaiting moderation, then the only one that seems to have printed out was my 3rd one. Do I need to resubmit, or wait a while?

  33. Also note in the Center for Media and Public Affairs study link provided, that the Mark Foley scandal received as much news coverage as the Iraq War and terrorism/national security, combined.

    But, of course, there is no media bias [/sarcasm]

  34. Oops, meant to include this in the last post as well:

    then why did the Bush administration have so much difficulty with the 2006 elections?

    Among other things, frustration with a Republican majority not behaving like a majority; and this perhaps, regarding mid-term election coverage:

    Press gives 88% negative coverage to the GOP; 77% positive coverage to the Democrats.

  35. Just wading through, here…

    For gosh sakes, my friend, if things are that rosy in Iraq, then the Bush administration could virtually assure that such news reached the populace here in America, if such were, in fact, the case. Certainly Fox News could bring that info to us. The fact of the matter is, however, that such news is not getting to us, leaving us all to wonder why, including the electorate that booted Republicans out of office in Congress.

    FOX News does not reach anywhere near the audience that the Big 3 networks reach, combined with CNN, MSNBC, the CBC, the BBC, PBS, NPR, the NYTimes, the LA Times, the Washington Post, and the usual suspects of MSM.

    Part of the problem is a media that gravitates toward “if it bleeds, it leads”, sensationalist, negative news coverage. It makes it seem like the sky is always falling in the world. And of course another aspect is liberal bias, a media that is largely anti-war, and some that are anti-Bush agenda-driven journalism. How else do you expect people’s perception of the war to be colored, and world opinion shaped when you have the most influential paper in the U.S., the NYTimes, print 30 consecutive frontpage news stories on abu Ghraib in as many days?

    A great article worth the read is The Press at War. The influence that the media has on perception is enormous. And they are doing much harm by their imbalanced, drive-by brand of reporting. Most people have no idea that the escalation of violence is concentrated in only a couple of provinces, because the media is doing exactly what the enemy wants it to do. It’s the press, as much as anyone else, who can lose this war for us.

    Nephi or Mudkitty, did you visit the link to Flopping Aces? It’s just one example of some of the sloppy journalism that passes amongst our elite news organizations.

  36. Terri,

    Our conversation appears to have digressed, which is fine. But the first sentence of your past comment appears to suggest that you are apologetic to authority. In other words, be it law enforcement or the Bush administration, what the media says should be given but second shrift to the “official” version from the authority. Sorry, Terri, but that is a jump that I am not willing to make.

  37. What I see the media doing is what I see them doing in regards to many professions, such as Law Enforcement. They tend to smear the “bad acts” all over the media and give the impression that all are like that. It’s nothing new, been going on for years. My question has always been, Why not balance out the “bad” acts of a few with the postive and good acts of the many others in those types of professions. Instead our media concentrates on the bad and forgets about the good, because death, destruction and horrible acts by some is what sells in America. It’s prejudicial, but unfortunately the majority of the American public thrives off of hearing all the bad that’s going on, instead of standing up and demanding that the media report the postive things as well. It’s something that’s always aggravated about the media and probably always will. Doesn’t have anything to do with emotions at all, just don’t like the way they blatantly push all the bad that’s going on in the world. Wouldn’t it be nice to watch the news one time and see nothing but positive, upbeat things for a change?

  38. Oops. Me bad. What I meant to say in the last sentence was: “Maybe, just maybe, what James Baker and Lee Hamilton. both good supporters of the GOP, ARE SUGGESTING is an alternative to stay the course of this unnecessary war.

  39. Terrii,

    You say that the media makes the troops “look like heathens.” This is a point on which we disagree. I don’t recall many media reports that make the troops look like heathens. Some reports divulge isoltaed “bad” acts, but look like heathens? I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you on that statement.

    Rather, what the media reports appear to be saying is that our guys are in a bad situation, and in order to achieve our “goals,” maybe stayin’ the course ain’t such a great course. Maybe, just maybe, what James Baker and Lee Hamilton. both good supporters of the GOP, is an alternative to stay the course of this unnecessary war.

  40. If we leave Iraq now, we’ll end up with a bigger mess…. another one here on American soil. And No Cliff I’m not saying stay in Iraq to bolster troop morale at all. I was merely stating that the numerous troops I’ve spoken to feel that they’re in Iraq to complete a job and regardless of what the media might say, they’re darn proud of what they’ve accomplished and want to finish their job and they don’t appreciate the fact that too many times, the media does it’s best to make the troops, who are doing humane and even heroic things in Iraq and Afghanistan, look like heathens and many times put them in greater danger by the half truths they report.

  41. Cliff,

    Actually, you are wrong. Withdrawal does not mean defeat. Rather, it means “Mission Accomplished.” But we accomplished our mission, as stated by the commander-in-chief in May 2003, didn’t we??.

    Just what was our mission, anyway?

  42. Terri, are you saying we should stay because of troop moral? Because they want to finish the job?

  43. “but I also know that they%u2019re doing the job that is necessary.”

    Terri,

    Again, my thoughts and concerns are with you and your significant other serving in Iraq. But you comment strikes at the heart of what many Americans find wrong. This war was not “necessary.” This war was and is a figment of neo-con conservative group-thing run amok.

    Your points are valid and stand. My point is, however, that you and I could be debating social security right now, rather than was Bush correct to invade Iraq. Many, many, told Bush prior to 2003 that were he to invade Iraq, he would face a big mess. The “naysayers” were correct.

  44. There hasn’t been one military person that I’ve ever spoken with who hasn’t honestly spoken about what they feel in regards to war. They’re trained as to what to say if they’re approached by the media, sure. Too many times, the media takes snippets of what someone says and twists it around to serve their purpose, instead of accurately reporting what is said. It’s a game to them, always has been.

    I don’t like the fact that I have a loved one and many friends serving in a War Zone and putting their lives in danger, but I also know that they’re doing the job that is necessary. If there was a way to “wave a magic wand” and stabalize things in Iraq, you bet I’d do it, but that’s not even remotely possible. Our troops want nothing more than to finish the job that they’ve started in Iraq and return home to support from the American Citizens and get on with their lives. Unlike certain Democrats, I don’t “flip flop” in my beliefs, unless I have unmitigated facts. So far, I’ve not seen anything to convince me to believe any different than what I do now.

  45. Whom I talking to? Well let’s see, considering that I work on a military installation and am in contact with troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan every day…. I’m talking to troops returning to Fort Hood from Iraq with 4ID and with troops currently in Iraq with 1CD. As I said, I’m supporting a group of 336 1CD soldiers at this very moment and each one I talk to say that they avoid the News, because what they’re seeing on the News does not reflect what’s going on through-out Iraq as a whole, but instead only in a couple specific areas. They avoid the News because instead of concentrating on any progress at all that our military is making, they focus on the actions of an “few” bad apples in the military and make it look like all of our soldiers are heathens. If you carefully read this blog’s previous entries, you’ll see that the soldiers who post here, condem those who have committed the atrocities that are splashed across the news and support them being given the harshest of penalties.

  46. Terri,

    I can’t respond to the idea that it is Clinton’s fault.

    At some point, I guess all of us hold tightly rhetoric that validates our politics.

    You will clearly be among the last of the now 73% of Americans who want to withdrawl from Iraq.

    And yes, Terri, that means defeat, surrender or whatever you want to call it.

    Our politicians screwed up. The moral suffers. It sucks.

  47. On yeah, CJ, “vast majority of military personnel who have positive things to say about Iraq?” is just not honest.

    I guess you hear what you wanna hear. ALL serving personel are well trained about how to speak about the war. It takes hours sometimes to get the truth.

  48. Well I guess we can agree to disagree, because like CJ, I feel that the Clinton administration is who betrayed our Troops and thus our Nation. As I said previously, Clinton’s administration was the one who CUT our military numbers to the point of us barely having enough troops to provide the peacekeeping forces in the various countries around the world that we do, as a part of the UN, let alone also have enough troops to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was the Clinton Administration who chose to decrease the amount of money given to upgrade and improve our Military equipment. So now, we’re attempting to play “catch up” and update equipment, recruit people into the Military and increase our Military forces to the point they should be at. I’m not saying that Bush hasn’t made mistakes, but I think the mistakes by Clinton and his administration FAR outweigh them.

  49. NONE of our troops will come back with tails between their legs. Such an idea is in direct contrast to CJ’s comment;

    74% of Americans rate the military with the most confidence, more than any other profession. So, why don%u2019t people listen to the vast majority of military personnel who have positive things to say about Iraq?

    I have also been interviewing returning vets since the firsy Utah reserve came home. As you say, “majority of them are disgusted and ashamed of the half-truths and blatant disrespect shown for the job they%u2019re doing in Iraq,” IS TRUE.

    However, “upset over what they see in the Media”? I hear that the media doesn’t reflect how bad it is.

    I’m takling to tanker truck drivers and Marines. Who you talking to?

  50. Terri,

    I truley respect your point of view, I really do. And, I appreciate that much good has been accomplished in Iraq at the hands of our finest, including, moreover, your significant other, to whom I offer my best wishes.

    But is seems to me that Baghdad and Al Anbar province are Iraq, at leasr insofar as stabilization of the country is concerned. And if these areas cannot be stabilized, then it doesn’t matter what happens in the various other areas of Iraq that maybe somewhat under control.

    In other words, if NYC is out of control, then it probably matters little what happens in Burlington, Vermont. Having said that, I appreciate what our finest have done in Iraq, notwithstanding, however, my utter disappointment and sense of betrayal of the Bush administration.

  51. Cliff not only do I talk to troops who are Veteran’s of the Iraq War and maybe not over there currently, but I also am supporting 336 and talk to them frequently, who ARE in Iraq and the majority of them are disgusted and ashamed of the half-truths and blatant disrespect shown for the job they’re doing in Iraq, ashamed and upset over what they see in the Media. Sure there are a few there who want nothing more than to come home with their tails between their legs. Many times, they’re the ones who end up in my office at Fort Hood, but I honestly don’t believe they’re the majority. Not from what I’m hearing from those with “Boots On The Ground”

  52. I’m appreciate your comment Terri. Tell me, why do you think SOME soldiers serving in Iraq (whom I support) understand something better than real veteran experts?

    Shouldn’t we keep in mind that they have a kind of tunnel vision as opposed to the big picture?

  53. Clinton was the one who cut the numbers in our Military as well as decreased the funding for equipment. What we’re working with now, IS a direct result of the Clinton administration.

  54. No, I haven’t been to Iraq, but quite honestly, I believe what the soldiers I’ve been supporting through deployments for the last 6 years tell me, because THEY ARE THERE! My significant other is there as we speak and so I do hear about the progress that is being made. None of the soldiers I’ve supported in the past or currently have had any reason to lie about what they’re doing and what they’re seeing. They’re not politicians.

    The nice thing about living in the United States is all the freedoms we enjoy, including Freedom of the Press. Which means that the government DOES NOT control what they report or how they report about any given situation.

    Think about what you’ve heard and read in the media. What cities and provinces in Iraq are repeatedly being talked about when it comes to the violence? I happened to have gone back over what’s been being reported in the media in the past month, and it’s not the entire country that is repeatedly in the headlines, but instead a couple select areas where the violence is centered, repeatedly. You don’t hear much mention of the other provinces, so I rest my case. No things aren’t “rosy” as you say but things aren’t near as bad as the MSM would like us to believe either. You have as much or more violence in American cities each and every day, sadly enough.

  55. Terri,

    Apparently, neither of us have been to Iraq, so we’re both left to rely on hearsay for our opinions. Worse yet, the “hearsay” on the situation in Iraq is, at best, equipose – for every positive, there is a negative, and vice versa. Kinda like asking the question: “Is the glass half empty or half full?”

    But here is a question for you. If, as you say, so many more of the areas in Iraq “are now virtually problem free,” then why did the Bush administration have so much difficulty with the 2006 elections?

    For gosh sakes, my friend, if things are that rosy in Iraq, then the Bush administration could virtually assure that such news reached the populace here in America, if such were, in fact, the case. Certainly Fox News could bring that info to us. The fact of the matter is, however, that such news is not getting to us, leaving us all to wonder why, including the electorate that booted Republicans out of office in Congress.

  56. I have the priviledge to be in touch with one of my adopted soldiers on a daily basis.

    He is a CPT, Civil Affairs Team Leader in Iraq. This is also his 3rd deployment. I dont care what news your listening to or what friend you claim you have in Iraq but I have seen pictures of the children and Iraqi people who my soldier is meeting with everyday. Those look like big smiles to me.

    He has helped build schools and has helped purify the water. (Do you read that Muddy??)!!

  57. I don’t feel betrayed by Bush at all. I feel betrayed by Clinton who allowed all of this to happen under HIS watch. He did NOTHING to keep me out of a war. By the time Bush inherited the throne, war was the only thing left. Clinton was more interested in blow jobs than blowing up al Qaeda when he had the chance. And yet, he’s a poster boy of perfection to Democrats, the media, and the rest of the world. Bush isn’t liked because he made the tough decisions. he chose the hard right over the easy wrong. People are pissed that he had to come into their backyard to fix something that they should have fixed themselves.

    I apologize for the Kiss my ass comment and have removed it. What I do feel betrayed by is people like you who seek to constantly minimize my efforts and the efforts of my brothers and sisters in Iraq who have turned a hell hole into a better place. Every time I try to highlight those facts, you want to trash them or the President instead of acknowledging them. How about rooting for our side for once?!

    And Cliff, the Iraq War hasn’t lasted longer than WWII. We ended the Iraq War back in 2003. We’re nation building now, thank you very much. And we haven’t come close to the amount of time that took in WWII.

  58. Mudkitty can defend itself, and unless you read months of comments, you won’t know why I said that – you need to do your homework – people always look foolish when they jump in the middle of something they are not informed about.

    Yes, I believe that your profound hatred of Bush – it’s psychotic – pushes you to the point that you are no longer, if ever, wanting American victory – after all, that would be a victory for Bush and you wouldn’t want that. The terrorists believe that is what you mean and they rejoice and gain strength from it.

    While you call names – such a lack of intelligence is shown when doing that – you have lose all perspective on being able to evaluate any situation. You are too busy looking for things to support your desires.

    Do you want America to win in Iraq?

  59. You know, it’s a very rare occasion that I see CJ react in this manner. It has nothing to do with CJ not liking your point of view, because CJ will be the first to invite people who disagree with him to post here. His frustration and that of everyone else’s is the fact that even when you’re given information showing that you might be wrong, you blatantly call CJ and others liars. As I said before, CJ’s been in Iraq…… have you????

  60. Nephi, have you been to Iraq and seen the progress that has occurred? I, for a fact know that CJ has. He has seen and helped to make that progress become a reality. But as CJ said, you and mudkitty, are going to continue to wear your blinders and believe the MSM propaganda, all aimed at creating a Nation of hate against Bush, without acknowledging that things have progressed and that things have improved in Iraq. Yes there are problem spots, which CJ readily admits, but there are many, many more areas of that country that are now virtually problem free, due to the hard work and dedication of Coalition Soldiers, soldiers such as CJ, SNAFU, CplM and Patriot.

  61. CJ, spare me the kiss my ass stuff, please. Again, such statements only evidence your disappointment in, and sense of betrayal by, Bush. You and I are on the same side – we want the best for this country, I am certain of that. But we disagree, passionatly, on how to achieve that goal. Again, you label me a troll and tell me to kiss your ass because you don’t like my point of view, and to you in response, I ask, where’s the beef?

  62. You are wrong CJ. There is no relation between stoning al-Maliki and throwing insults at Bush. The whole point of the comments above and the top post are that things are rosy in Iraq and, but for the “liberal media,” we would all be properly informed about just how great things really are. Your flipant comment evidences that you, indeed, realize that things are bad, very bad, in Iraq, and things are not going to get better anytime soon.

  63. Actually, the situation in Iraq is much MUCH worse than the MSM reports. If you have any doubts about that, let me know. I’ll prove it.

  64. Nephi, the stoning of Maliki’s motorcade is no different than what people like you have been doing to Bush since your beloved John Kerry lost the presidency. Spare me your “what abouts”.

  65. Nephi, while we’re talking about percentages, how about the fact that 74% of Americans rate the military with the most confidence, more than any other profession. So, why don’t people listen to the vast majority of military personnel who have positive things to say about Iraq?

    The over 50% you talk about are the 50% that have been duped by people who simply hate Bush and US media. This election was about the war, but it wasn’t about resolution or fixing what’s broken. It was about hating Bush. It wasn’t about having any sort of plan (other than pulling out, which fixes nothing) of going forward. It’s funny how when more than 50% of the electorate reelected Bush into office that the election was stolen, yet when it goes the other way with Congress, proving some sort of point. The bottom line is that this election wasn’t a sweep. Most of those elections were barely won. Most of them resulted in a mere 51/49 or closer split. That isn’t exactly something to be proud of. All that meant was that the Bush haters and no-plan-havers were able to scam more people into the voting booths. The media did a great job of tearing down Bush and our military’s MANY successes in Iraq and focusing on the problem areas.

    It doesn’t matter that 16 of the 18 Iraqi provinces are problem free and experiences growth and prosperity not seen since pre-Saddam. Instead, let’s focus on the TWO provinces experiences issues with terrorism and violence – one of which is Sunni dominated and the other a mixture of clashing religious sects, thanks to Saddam’s segregation. Think about it, where do you hear about the problems in Iraq? Samawah? No. Karbala? No. Basrah? No. Najaf? No. Nasiriyah? No. Kut? No. Samarra? No. Diwaniyah? No. Hillah? No. Umm Qasr? No. Kirkuk? No. Balad? No. Mosul? Not for awhile. Arbil? No. Sulaymaniyah? No. But, you’re not going to care about that. Your response is going to be, “well what about Baghdad and Fallujah or Ramadi?” because you can’t see the trees for the forest. Those are the problem areas.

    As for enlightening you about the progress in Iraq, read through this site. I highlight that progress often and in detail. You just can’t see it because you DO have blinders on, much like Mudkitty. You’d rather focus on the failures of Bush and our military instead of the successes. If you dont’ believe me, just look at the positive posts I’ve written and then responses from people like you. It not “hey, great job guys. I hope that catches on.” It’s not, “Wow, I didn’t know that. that’s great work our troops are doing.” No, it’s generally, “Bush sucks!!” “Bush is dumb.” “Bush blah blah blah.” It’s psychobabble is what it is. Am I pissed and frustrated? Hell yeah. You can kiss my…..

  66. And while you are at it, FG, maybe you will place in perspective for us the stoning of al-Maliki’s motorcade today by Shiites, his own stronghold, and the mortar attack on a US base which, as shown on the news, is still billowing black smoke. I’m sure the children are smiling at that.

    I don’t mean to be a “troll” as you folks so fondly brand me. But, I think at some point, you have to come to the realization that you have been betrayed by your beloved Chimpus. Out of control deficit, nation building and tax cuts for the wealthy. Thanks, Chimpus (and Dickus), you certainly do deserve to be fed with a silver spoon. May your vacations come 2009 be awesome – I recommend The Netherlands.

  67. I’ll repost this once again. I know that CJ’s posted this and I’ve reposted it once, but will do it again. Unfortunately the MSM RARELY reports any of this stuff. So, I’ll say once again, our troops ARE doing good things in Iraq.

    Did you know that 47 countries%u2019 have reestablished their embassies
    in Iraq?

    Did you know that the Iraqi government currently employs 1.2 million
    Iraqi people?

    Did you know that 3100 schools have been renovated, 364 schools are
    under rehabilitation,

    263 new schools are now under construction and 38 new schools have
    been completed in Iraq?

    Did you know that Iraq%u2019s higher educational structure consists of 20
    Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
    all currently operating?

    Did you know that 25 Iraq students departed for the United States in
    January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

    Did you know that the Iraqi Navy is operational? They have 5 –
    100-foot patrol craft, 34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry
    regiment.

    Did you know that Iraq%u2019s Air Force consists of three operational
    squadrons, which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport
    aircraft (under Iraqi operational control)
    which operate day and night, and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters
    and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

    Did you know that Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando
    Battalion?

    Did you know that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
    fully trained and equipped police officers?

    Did you know that there are 5 Police Academies in Iraq
    that produce over 3500 new officers each 8 weeks?

    Did you know there are more than 1100 building projects going on in
    Iraq? They include 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83
    railroad stations,22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities and 69
    electrical facilities.

    Did you know that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5
    have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

    Did you know that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in
    primary school by mid October?

    Did you know that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in Iraq
    and phone use has gone up 158%?

    Did you know that Iraq has an independent media that consists of 75
    radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

    Did you know that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

    Did you know that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election
    had a televised debate recently?

    OF COURSE WE DIDN%u2019T KNOW!

    WHY DIDN%u2019T WE KNOW?
    OUR MEDIA WOULDN%u2019T TELL US!
    Instead of reflecting our love for our country,
    we get photos of flag burning incidents at Abu Ghraib
    and people throwing snowballs at the presidential motorcades.

    Tragically, the lack of accentuating the positive in Iraq serves two
    purposes:
    It is intended to undermine the world%u2019s perception of the United
    States thus minimizing consequent support, and it is intended to
    discourage American citizens.

    %u2014- Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web
    site.

  68. “Do you know about the agricultural progess in Iraq? Do you know what our troops have done to help the Iraqis return to the soil? Do you know about the schools, the hospitals, the water systems, the power systems – the truth about them? Do you know that they have more power NEED now than ever before because they are buying satelite dishes and new appliances?”

    Flag Gazer

    No, FG, I don’t know about these things. Why don’t you entighten us? And, perhaps, you can enlighten us as to why you feel it necessary to brand someone like Mudkitty as “want[ing] the US to fail so badly” simply for speaking a viewpoint different from your own – a view point shared, I might add, by over 50% of the American electorate as evidenced by the 2006 elections and Bush’s approval rating a monumental dismal 31%, give or take a percent or two.

  69. Mudkitty –
    So, you can read – did you read this entire post, including the links? I think not.

    Why do you want the US to fail so badly? You seem to be cheerleading for defeat in each and every ridiculous thing you say… mostly leftist talking points, I might add. You seem to want to belong here, yet you go out of your way to denigrate the men who are sacrificing so you can say the silly things you do.

    Do you know about the agricultural progess in Iraq? Do you know what our troops have done to help the Iraqis return to the soil? Do you know about the schools, the hospitals, the water systems, the power systems – the truth about them? Do you know that they have more power NEED now than ever before because they are buying satelite dishes and new appliances?

    If you want to focus on the car bombings you will miss everything else that is going on, and a great deal is going on.

  70. You see…. I base my beliefs on what I hear from many people who are in different areas of Iraq. I base my opinion on their stories of the SMILES on the faces of the children that they’ve befriended, the THANKS they receive from the Iraqi people in their area of operations. I base my opinion on the WORD of soldiers such as CJ, Patriot and SNAFU who know well the bad and the good things that are occurring in Iraq, because they either have or currently are serving over there. I base my opinion on the SATISFACTION these soldiers show, when they talk of the schools they’ve helped to rebuild and equip, the hospitals that are back in operation, the businesses that are operating, the electricity and water services that are restored to the region, the advancement of the rights of the Iraqi women, who only a short time ago were considered second hand citizens or chattel. That’s what I base my opinion on mudkitty, NOT the rantings of a reporter who’s main goal is to undermine what our military is accomplishing all over the world.

  71. What I’m saying is that as usual, the MSM only reports the bad things and for some twisted reason, refuse to report the progress and the positive things that OUR U.S. Soldiers are accomplishing each and every single day. War is never pretty, never a bed of roses, but the MSM should also be broadcasting news about the neighborhoods that ARE better because of the presence of our soldiers, the positive impact they’re making in all areas. But, do we see that in the news? Very rarely. The MSM is hell-bent on doing everything in their power to destroy the progress they’re making by concentrating on the bad. If you follow the news, as you claim to do, you’d see that most of the violence is concentrated in specific areas, and the MSM could care less about the other areas, where violence has decreased and the citizens there are being able to have a life free from tyranny. As usual mudkitty, you twist things to suit your own twisted perception of things.

  72. I have a friend over there, plus I can read. Plus I refuse to put blinders on. Plus I watch something other than Faux News, although if you watch them lately, even they acknowledge that things are going from worse to hellish. And I’ve never claimed to be an expert.

    Are you saying things aren’t bad over there? Are you saying things aren’t getting worse by the minute? Are you really saying that? Do you really want to stand by that?

  73. Once again mudkitty the expert on all things pertaining to our troops has spoken……. Give me a break.

  74. Yes, it really is that bad. Go over to the rightwing site Further Adventures Of Indigo Red, and there’s someone currently in Iraq, who can tell you that. But be warned, he’s asking for money to get out of the country.

    The fact that someone opens a melon stand is not “news.” It sould be business as usual, but it’s not. Not in Iraq.

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